For years I have recommended Yamaha classical guitars due to their excellent workmanship and great value for money.
If you were buying a new classical guitar for under SGD$1,000, I probably would have recommended a Yamaha. Not only were they well-made, but there were also very consistent from unit to unit; a rarity for musical instruments.
Several months ago, I hand a first-hand taste of Yamaha’s newest line of classical guitars. I walked away from that session feeling indifferent about the new models.
Yesterday, I went to the Music Plaza outlet at Plaza Singapura to select a Yamaha classical guitar for a new student. I walked away from that experience horrified.
I tried 6 CG182 models. 4 with cedar tops (CG182C) and 2 with spruce tops (CG182S).
For those unfamiliar with the new models, the CG182 model is the successor to the CG171 model. It was on sale and retailing for SGD$520 (U.P SGD $650).
I thought it was a pretty good price, considering its only one-step below Yamaha’s flagship CG192 model (the successor to the CG201).
But selecting a good one was like navigating a minefield!
Both of the spruce topped guitars had varying degrees of runout on the top.
I have never seen so much runout on a Yamaha guitar before, let alone for their second best CG model.
A couple of the cedar units also had some runout, but it wasn’t as bad as the spruce varieties.
All 6 also action set too low on the bass side. All 6 guitars buzzed on the 4th and 5th string at the 5th fret position.
I’m not sure if this batch is problematic or if this is a design flaw, but if consumers have been affected by a design oversight, then I think Yamaha should ship replacement nut and saddles to consumers who already bought the guitars.
I’m surprised to find these flaws in Yamaha classical guitars. I sincerely hope it’s not a sign of things to come.
To be fair, I should mention that the newer guitars are more comfortable for the left hand. The reduced action is welcome, but shouldn’t come at the expense of sound cleanliness.
Fret buzzing caused by low action on a classical guitar is unacceptable.
The new guitars also sound pretty good.
On a side note, my experience with the sales staff at Music Plaza was excellent. Randy Tan, the person who served me, treated me well. He took a record 6 guitars to the sound proof room for me to try.
Previously, other salesmen only brough 2-3 guitars for me to try, and they didn’t even suggest that I try it in the sound proof room.
At least their customer service is getting better.
Anyone else finding issues with Yamaha’s newest line of classical guitars?
got a cg151c back in december when there was the yamaha christmas sale. tried out the new models too but they were not up to my satisfaction. cg151c is indeed value for money – considering the tone you get out of it. 🙂
Yes I agree about the CG151.
I can understand why the new batch of guitars were not up to your satisfaction. I’m trying to reserve judgement till I spend more time with the new instruments. But I’m not impressed by what I’ve seen so far.
I have a 1 1/2 year old Cg 151C. 2 problems:
1) The intonation is sharp in higher positions and
2) The D string has developed a buzz.
Intonation: I played a half dozen before buying mine and EVERY ONE was the same. I figure I’ll machine a piece of bone to relocate the contact point a couple mm’s back to compensate. It looks liek an easy fix.
The buzz started when I went from high tension strings to normal. (A couple of the others I played had this issue with stock strings.) It is NOT in the frets! I raised the D string with a piece of bone at the 2’nd fret and it still buzzed. It’s in the body. Perhaps a resonance in the body? I figure I’ll look for a loose brace, then try adding some mass to change the natural frequency. Silly putty would be good to play with if it doesn’t mar the finish.
Other than these two issues which I think are fixable, I really like this instrument. It is extremely well made and the cedar top is gorgeous.The sound is excellent. In fact 2 pros made off the cuff remarks that this was an $800 guitar. Nope, $350. That leaves some room for improvements.
Hi Vince,
I’m sorry to hear of your trouble with the Yamaha CG151C. Is it a new or used instrument?
If it’s new, then you got a pretty good price for it. It used to retail for around $500. I’ve seen it go for $350 during some sales, but it’s quite rare to get it for that price.
I knew what to expect with the old CG line. With the new CG line, it feels like a crap-shoot some times. Now I recommend Alhambra Guitars to my students. I’m reluctant to recommend the latest Yamaha CG line. My last student who purchased the new CG series only did so because I was able to hand-select one for him.
The CG151 is a nice guitar. But is it as good as a $800 guitar? Not in my opinion. I’ve played a substantial number of $800 classical guitars that were better than the CG151. It’s good, but IMO, it’s not that good.
Hi Dedrick,
I bought it new at a local music store, $350 (US) with tax, they matched the internet pricing.. They keep a pretty good inventory. I tried out a bunch of CG’s up to the 201, this cedar top just sounded so much better than the rest.
The guitar is appropriate for my ability at this point, a $1000 guitar would be wasted on me as I’m re-learning to play after many years off. I do like to tinker with things so I think I can solve these 2 issues.
It’s too bad that there are ANY issues. With modern manufacturing methods, intonation should be nothing less than perfect. Don’t know what that buzz is yet, but it’s probably minor. Still….
I’ll have to check out an Alhambra, thanks for the tip!
Just a followup to my post. I could not figure out that buzz, contacted Yamaha through their web site and they CALLED me a couple hours later. The rep suggesting returning the guitar. They replaced it with a 162C. That guitar had an awful buzz in the D string at every position. Once that 1 string was replaced, it’s fine. (And the intonation is right on the money.) Yamaha called me again to make sure that all was well. This for a (US) $350 guitar.
So yes, Yamaha seems to be having some issues, but their customer service response was awesome. Hopefully the new one won’t develop any issues.
Take care!
Hi VinceD,
Good to hear that and good on Yamaha for doing the right thing. It’s nice to see such great customer service and care, even for student range instruments.
I hope you enjoy your new guitar!
I was led to your site while researching the purchase of a new guitar. A couple of questions:
1. Has the quality of Yamaha Classical Guitar improved since you wrote this article?
2. Where can I get an Alhambra in Singapore?
Honestly, I have not taken a look at Yamaha Guitars since I wrote that article. My schedule has been a nightmare, so I can’t comment if the quality has improved.
Alhambra Guitars are sold at Synwin Violins, Tomas Music Centre, Luthier Guitar Centre and Maestro Guitars.
If you want to buy Alhambra Guitars, I recommend going to either Synwin Violins or Tomas Music Centre. These 2 outlets offer the cheapest prices for Alhambra Guitars (isn’t it ironic that Synwin Violins sells Alhambra Guitars for a prices that are cheaper than Maestro Guitars?).
Maestro Guitars and Luthier Guitar Centre’s prices are 10-15% more. I’ve also had terrible experiences trying to order Alhambra Guitars from Hozen of Maestro Guitars. It was an absolutely terrible experience and I will never do business with them again.
So now that quality control in the Yamaha CG line has slipped, could you please advise which models you recommend that are comparable to the CG182? Which Almansa models do you recommend to your students at similar price point and quality to the CG182? Cedar or Spruce? Or it depends on the each individual guitar? Thanks for any info!
Hi Jill,
I first tried Almansa Guitars about 5 years ago, when they were new to the Singaporean market. They were originally brought in by the now defunct ‘Living Strings’. They were pretty good for the money back then.
However, I do not like the recent batch of Almansa Guitars I’ve played in the last 2 years.IMO, Alhambra has really stepped up their game and their current product offerings is very competitive.
An Alhambra 3C from Synwin should retail for around the same price as a Yamaha CG182. I was also very impressed by the Martinez Guitars that are offered by Yudi Kwok at Luthier Guitar Center. You can check those out too.
FYI, renown luthier Kenny Hill is involved in Martinez, and I’ve heard rumours that Alhambra has bought over Almansa.
The legendary Ramirez workshop has also openly admitted outsourcing the E series to Alhambra.
Cedar or Spruce really depends on the preference of the player. It’s like a “chocolate or vanilla” question. There’s no right answer and I’ve shifted between the two wood types throughout the years.
Sometimes I’m in the mood for chocolate, sometimes I’m in the mood for vanilla. What can I say? I’m fickle.
Thank you very much for your wise words of advice, Mr. Koh! 🙂
I guess I’ll bypass the CG182/CG192 and will keep looking. I like my CG111C but my teacher tells me it’s time to think about a better guitar.
Jill
Hi Mr. Koh!
Do you have any opinions on the cedar topped Yamaha GC-21 (laminated back/sides) and GC-31 (solid back/sides)? I’ve heard these are good quality, still made in Japan, with good tone. Is solid back and sides worth the extra money?
Maybe the Ramirez R1 might be a good choice?
Thanks for any help!
Jill
Hi Jill,
I was in your position 7 years ago. I was looking for a guitar around $2-3K. During that time, I played several Yamaha GC models (and plenty more in the subsequent years). The construction of these instruments is typically flawless. But I did not like the sound, which is the most important attribute.
More often than not, I found them to be sterile and unmoving. The balance and projection is good but I find the response to be slow. GCs also have extremely ‘neutral’ voicings and a medium-sized tone. The size of the tone and the slow response were not suitable for my style of playing. I’m sure it suits other playing styles just fine.
Out of the numerous GCs I tried (in Singapore and Japan), the only one I really liked was a GC-21 that was heavily marked down. It was a rare gem with exceptionally firm basses. I nearly snapped it up but I didn’t have a space for it in my collection nor could I justify the purchase despite the substantial discount.
What I’m trying to say is, I’m not a fan the Yamaha GC line. But I’m sure they produce a rare gem I’d like every now and then. The guitars are ‘OK’, but to my ears and hands, there are better guitars out there for the money.
I eventually opted to purchase a Asturias Standard. The first time I played it, it was magic. The setup was exceptional and it played like butter. Unlike the other instruments in the same showroom, the Standard was considerably scuffed up – probably from extensive playing and testing. It was easy to understand why. It had a warm and lyrical sound with great projection for a guitar that price.
I fell in love with it instantly and chose to procure it despite its cosmetic imperfections. If you are interested, I have a Wataru Tsuji S-1 for sale. It has many of the same qualities of my Asturias Standard, but has better balance and it sings much better in the higher registers. Despite it being a better guitar, I am letting it go because it is too similar in sound to my Asturias Standard, which I cannot let go due to sentimental reasons (my Asturias Standard was my first real guitar and I gave many of my first few public performances on it).
If you want a new Asturias Guitar, contact Yudi Kwok (from Luthier Guitar Centre).
Other guitars in that price range you can consider are Alhambra, and if you must buy an Almansa Guitar, I found the 457 to be a good guitar for the money when I tried it at Living Strings. I have not tried the recent 457s so I’m not sure if the quality has held up over the years. I did not like the lower-end models. Dollar-for-dollar, they were not as competitive as some of the other brands available on the market.
Kenny Hill Guitars are hard to find in Singapore. But I admire them greatly and you should check them out if you get the chance. Be warned that there have been some doubts raised over the authenticity of ‘Kenny Hill’ guitars sold at the Maestro Guitar Concept Stores.
Personally I don’t care if the back and sides are laminated. Greg Smallman, who makes $40,000 classical guitars, uses laminated backs and sides. A lot of top makers do that too. Typically it’s a construction technique to force the top to vibrate harder.
Don’t obsess over construction details like these. Your only concern as a player should be how it sounds and how it plays. Your only considerations about construction is to ensure that there are no cracks or other construction flaws that could affect the long term structural integrity of the instrument.
Hi Mr. Koh!
Thank you so much for your help! I appreciate that you’re able to share with me your knowledge! 🙂
The sound of the Wataru Tsuji you have for sale is so gorgeous! You make the guitar sing so beautifully! I hope that one day I’ll be able to afford such a fine instrument, and I wish that one day I’ll be able to play that well too!
I’m going to take a close look at the Alhambra guitars per your recommendation. I think the 4P Cedar might be a good option?
Jill
Hi Jill,
Thanks. The actual sound is even better. My recording equipment and abilities are quite limited.
I’d be happy to let you try it if you want. No purchase necessary. Playing it may help broaden your horizons. It’ll also be a good experience for you.
Yes, the Alhambra 4P would be a good choice. Several of my students have purchased that model and used it to great success in either performances or exams. If you have small hands, you may want to consider purchasing a 3/4 or 7/8 sized version from Alhambra.
Hi Mr. Koh!
Long time, no hear! Sorry for the late reply! 🙁
I finally bought a new guitar! I bought an Asturias Prelude Spruce! I think it plays nice and sounds pretty good. It’s like so much louder than my old guitar! It sounds brighter than Cedar I think, but I was told the Spruce will improve over time. The Alhambra 7P I tried was all solid wood but I liked the way the Prelude played better. The Prelude has plywood back and sides which kinda bothers me since it cost me the same as an all solid wood guitar.
But I think the build is top notch and it’s built perfectly with nice Gotoh tuners.
Anyways, just thought I’d let you know how my search finally went and to say thanks again for all your help!
Jill
Hi Jill,
Congrats! I’ve played both guitars before, and you really can’t go wrong with either. I’m a big fan of Asturias and the Prelude is a nifty guitar. Honestly, I wouldn’t worry about the laminated backs and sides. Specifications aren’t as important as the musicality or playability of the instrument.
Asturias builds very clean and aesthetically-pleasing guitars. Their attention detail and craftsmanship are a testament to Japanese meticulousness. Also, I love Gotoh tuners. Dollar for dollar, the best value for any machine heads out there.
Congrats once again and I was happy to be of help. Happy playing!
Hi everyone,
Any comparisons to the CG170CA model? I have one and have to replace it cuz it’s original owner wants it back. I’m willing to spend $1000
Hi Paul,
I believe the new successor to the CG170CA would be the CG182. It’s ‘ok’ but IMO, Yamaha’s current product refresh is a bit of a hit and miss. It nails some things well, but is a bit lacking in others. If I had to get a replacement for something around that price range, I would consider another brand. In Singapore, Alhambra guitars are currently my brand of choice for student instruments.
Hi Dedrick, i’m kinda late responding to this rather “old” article, but still… interesting stuff, i enjoyed it very much. Here’s a question for you, i’ve found a store overhere who still has some discontinued Yamaha models in stock, amongst them, a CG201S. I can get it for 444,- Euros… what’s your thought on the CG201S? Unless i misunderstood you, i assume you favour these “older” series over the current new line up….. take care friend
Hi Rich,
I favour the older CG series because the action is higher. There’s plenty of clearance to prevent bite-back; useful for players with a strong right hand attack. I’ve previously owned the CG 201S. It is a nice guitar, and I would consider buying it at the price it is being offered. It’s a fair price.
Just ordered a Yamaha CG192S, I will be picking it up soon :). I hope it lives up to what I paid and more, I have read other reviews and people seem to pleased with it! I can’t wait to give mine a try!
Have fun! I hope you enjoy it.
Hello Dedrick, As someone who is just getting started into the classical guitar I am interested in purchasing a good guitar that I will not outgrow in a few years. Knowing only sufficient to be dangerous, I have read this thread with great interest and as we live in Mauritius, which is isolated with not a luthier in sight, and where humidity can be consistently high I am thinking I should consider a laminated guitar for most durable service. I was particularly interested in your comments re the Asturias Standard; apparently this model is no longer made however there is one on the net for US$2,300. Given my level of expertise this price is out of court. I notice you also mention Alhambra and it’s interesting to note that this guitar also offers laminated back and sides in quite a few models. The following are within my budget and I would appreciate any comment you may have on these, or alternatives at this date; Alhambra 4P (USD 898) or the 4P LR-4 (with sound vent cut into the side of upper bout, USD 980) or the 5P at about US1,100. We are visiting the US next month and it would be a good opportunity to pick up the gem at that time.
Look forward to your words of wisdom. Thanks, John S
Hi John,
Thanks for reading and leaving a comment. At USD$2,300 I’d consider looking at an Asturias Prelude instead, which is a step up from the Standard. I believe you can check out the Rokkoman Japanese website for more details.
At this price point, I also like Alhambra’s offerings; they are very competitive.
I’ve never played the Kenny Hill New World Guitars, but if the quality of his high end instruments is any indication of his emphasis on quality, they should be worthy of your consideration too, especially if you are visiting the US.
I hope this helps.
hi Dedrick
I have one important question to ask you about GC 7M, a vintage Yamaha classical guitar which was built in 1974-1979.
I plan to buy this gem or vintage GC Yamaha and seek your opinion about the quality of the sound and workmanship/ materials construction.
How much does it worth now if I want to buy it from someone?
regards, lawrence
Hi Lawrence, I am not a appraiser and it would be inappropriate for me to make any kind of judgement on the guitar, especially not having seen it. The best advice I can give you is to take a close look at the condition of the instrument, and to compare it with other instruments in the same price class; both new and used.